What Happens When Your Ex Tries To Have You Killed

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Jamie also lost her daughter Abby to suicide last year.

Please keep in mind that we do discuss this towards the end of the episode.

She has dedicated her time to spreading both her daughters’ stories.

>> Jamie, thank you so much for joining us on True Crime Conversations.

I want to start by you telling us a bit about your daughter Riley.

What’s she like? What’s she into? How did she grow up? I know you guys are from Arizona.

>> Riley is my middle daughter.

Uh second of this.

She is my sweet child.

She’s the uh um epitome of stuffed animals and drawings and she loves anime and art and the big heart and she’s the reader of the family and she loves fantasy and dragons and fairies and um so she grew up in Arizona started going to school and then I pulled all of my children out and they were homeschooled from fifth grade rather with homeschool.

>> Yeah, and we moved to Idaho in 2015 and we were there for about seven years and then we moved back to be with family.

She’s an introvert.

She’s just my sweetest kid for sure.

>> She lived a little of her life in her later teen years online, didn’t she? That’s where she kind of made friendships and kind of joined communities.

>> Yeah, um most of my kids did actually.

I think it’s just the times.

>> The generation.

>> Um and being homeschooled it was able for them to reach out and have a community that wasn’t in person, but yeah.

A lot of online activity.

>> When did she meet Scott Berkus? That was online, wasn’t it? >> It was, yeah.

Um it had to have been um late 2018, early 2019.

The beginning is kind of a blur.

She had joined um a Facebook and Discord group for her favorite anime show, Ruby.

And Ruby is all about women empowerment and um it’s was her absolute favorite.

And this um she was part of a community and they approached her about helping um you like an admin for the social media pages, so the groups of admins would get together and they would meet each other up in, you know, on Discord or on video chat and kind of discuss how they were going to run the groups.

And um Scott was another admin of that group, and that’s how they met.

>> Excuse my ignorance here, but what is Discord? Is it just like a Facebook or >> It’s an app that is it’s all chat rooms, basically.

So, there’s a lot of fandom.

I mean, there’s a lot of dark things on Discord as well, but most of it is for groups of kids that are fans of the same things.

There’s gaming and anime and just chatting and get to know getting to know each other.

It’s pages and pages and pages and pages of just chat.

These kids just all getting together in different groups.

So, there um people can own their own server and create their own group, and it’s kind of reminiscent of like you’re probably way too young for this, but like AOL chat rooms, you know, how they used to have people would create chat rooms that people with like-minds could get together and kind of >> It sounds like the MSN from my era.

If you remember that.

MSN Messenger.

>> Probably.

>> They they just come back in different eras and iterations, don’t they? Did she ever talk boys to you? Did you know Scott was kind of happening? Did Did you know that she was having chats? Cuz she would have been what, 18? >> Mm, 17, 18.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um Yeah, I mean, she talked about all of her friends, you know, um I I It wasn’t It was quite a while before she specifically spoke about him.

Probably mm early 2020, maybe she started talking more singling him out, you know, they were more talking one-on-one as opposed to in the group.

So, yeah, we kind of knew.

>> Was Scott her first real relationship? >> Yes.

>> And what were they like in a relationship? It was quite full-on, wasn’t it? >> Yeah, I mean, it wasn’t in person, so it was all, you know, video and internet and phone hours on the phone and um very innocent, very silly, almost.

You know, they’re very um that um genre of kiddos are are just they seem innocent.

You know, they’re into cartoons.

It’s anime.

You know, they’re into drawing and art and very light-hearted.

Um very unassuming.

You know, it was kind of like a really young um a young person’s romance.

You know, it was silly and fun and pretty innocent, really.

>> When I say full-on, I think I’ve heard Riley saying you know, they were saying I love yous within a few weeks and they were quite infatuated with each other.

But I guess what you’re saying is even that kind of side of it, it was all there was an innocence to it.

>> Absolutely.

Yeah.

It was very um little girl school crush kind of, you know, the way they spoke to each other because they’d be on speaker.

I could hear them talking and it was just silliness.

You know, it was They talked about cartoons.

They They talked about I mean, I’m sure they have private conversations.

I’m not completely delusional that they didn’t have adult conversations, but knowing my daughter Riley, when she even when she reads, she doesn’t read romance.

She she doesn’t she’s not hypersexualized.

You know, she just wasn’t.

She wasn’t my kid that just if um, you know, I would get her series of fantasy books and she would start to read them and she’s like, “Nope, there’s too much romance.

” Like most girls her age back then were into like Twilight and she just wasn’t about it.

She didn’t like that kind of that genre.

So, she was more like a puppy love, I think.

That’s what I perceived it to be anyway.

>> What did you know about Scott? Cuz he was a few years older, he lived 500 miles away in LA.

What had she told you about him? >> That he was in IT.

Um, he did some form of um, IT for a company.

Um, and then he would he was just very nerdy.

I just a dork.

I mean, unassuming, silly, goofy, not um, I knew that he still lived with his parents and um, any communication I ever had with him, he was just awkward and a very young or um, nerdy, dorky kind of sense of humor, you know, just seemed very innocent, didn’t seem daunting or scary at all.

He just seemed like a goofy kid.

>> So, did you have any reservations about their relationship and what they were doing? >> Absolutely, I did.

>> [laughter] >> Um, while it was online, no.

I mean, you know, you can’t get into much trouble on the internet is what I, you know, I mean, as long as you’re not taking pictures or you know, and Rye is a pretty smart kid, you know, so I didn’t I didn’t really worry about that.

It wasn’t until they decided to meet that I had my major reservations.

>> What were you nervous about? >> Everything [clears throat] you see on the news.

>> Yeah.

>> Exactly what happened.

>> Yeah.

>> That’s what I was nervous about.

Um and as I got closer to the meeting, I refused to take her to the airport.

I told I said, you know, you’re an adult and I mean, of sorts.

And um you can choose to do what you want, but I can’t support that.

It’s not safe.

That’s not safe for you to do.

So, um a family member took her to the airport because I just and I love her I told her I love you.

I hope you have the best time.

Um stay in contact with me, but I just Yeah.

I didn’t I had fears and I didn’t want to deliver her into someone’s hands, you know.

>> How did she feel about that? Was she just pure excitement or was she kind of She knew how you felt.

>> She did, but I wasn’t mean about it.

We weren’t in a bad place, you know.

Um you know, you think of it, 19-year-old girl, >> [clears throat] >> you know, really what mom thinks really doesn’t matter all that much, you know.

And um she was excited and I was supported her.

I mean, I helped her pick out clothes and pack and, you know, I helped her through all of that.

I just didn’t want to be the one to deliver her.

So, she was excited.

Um not a lot of travel for that girl, so it was it was her first solo trip ever.

That she’d never flown anywhere by herself.

So, she was excited.

>> Like you said, it was October 2020.

It was just as COVID restrictions were starting to lift around the world.

And Scott and Riley had planned their first ever in-person meeting, but they’d known each other for a year, a bit over a year by now, talking almost daily online.

She was there for a few days.

When she got back, did she tell you much about the meeting and what had happened? >> She had shown me a couple of pictures that they had taken like on the beach >> [snorts] >> um and she had told me about um meeting his parents.

Um she had stated that when she um arrived there that they they wanted to make her breakfast the following morning and they had gotten her a hotel in Beverly Hills right next to their pretty close to their home.

And um she was going to be there alone, you know.

I thought.

And um so the following morning he came and picked her up and they went to breakfast after she had arrived and at uh their house and I remember her telling me that it was strange because I guess Scott’s mother is a hoarder and she wouldn’t allow and she was terrified of COVID.

So she wouldn’t allow Riley in the house.

And this is a a very nice home in um Beverly Hills right off Rodeo Drive um in LA.

And they had breakfast outside, you know, so she never even got to see in the house.

She said she could see through the windows the the piles of things um stacks of things but um that was that was the first thing she told me and then other than that she just said we went to dinner, we did this, we did that.

You know, a couple of things but nothing nothing very specific.

She was pretty um different.

When you say different did you notice anything about her when she got back? Was her demeanor different? Mhm.

It was um she was quieter.

She didn’t talk to too much about it after that for several months, um a couple of months.

But I knew that they were they had was cutting it off from him.

And I just I had other things going on as [clears throat] well, so um I just thought maybe they met and he just wasn’t the right one for her and she wasn’t interested anymore and and um just kind of left it at that.

She didn’t really want to talk to about talk about it too much at first, so she just kind of went on with her life and she didn’t say much to me for a while.

>> She ended up confiding in her sister about 6 months after that meeting.

As much as you feel comfortable, can you tell us what she told your other daughter, her sister? >> So my oldest Jordan um noticed something wasn’t right with her.

Sisters do, right? Big sister.

And um kept bothering her about it, kept asking her and finally Riley confessed that um that the I believe the first night that um she got there that he came over and they were watching anime together at the hotel.

And um he convinced her to stay and she’s like, “I’m not ready for any of that.

” And um I I he she told her that he um kept trying and wouldn’t take no for an answer.

And then he had been at that time had been still trying to contact her after she broke contact.

So she told Jordan that he wasn’t leaving her alone.

>> [clears throat] >> And Jordan um took it upon herself to call him.

To tell him to leave.

Leave her alone.

So Jordan called him.

>> [clears throat] >> And he kind of didn’t react.

He He wasn’t going to stop.

So Jordan is the oldest and she doesn’t put up with much.

Um She got on Google and found Dad’s phone number and called his father.

And said, “I know what your son did to my sister.

You better make him leave her alone.

” I don’t know the exact words, but then I believe Riley or Jordan, I’m not sure which.

I think it was Jordan, got a text message from Scott saying, “Consider the matter closed.

” >> Which is weird.

What a weird thing to say.

>> It’s so weird to do.

Yeah.

He’s an odd duck, for sure.

>> So this, like you were saying before, is your worst nightmare.

This is what you didn’t want to happen, actually happened.

When you found out about this, how did you feel? What was your reaction? >> Anger.

I was really angry.

Um Broken for my kid, obviously.

Broken for my daughter.

Um I mean, we talked about counseling and, you know, she just wasn’t ready at that time.

And um I just listened to her and that’s a tough thing to hear your daughter tell you.

>> Of course.

>> Um Yeah.

But we, you know, he was leaving her alone, so we kind of moved forward and talked about counseling and and um we we talked about it a little on and off, just when she was ready and when she felt ready.

Um we talked about charges, but those things are really hard to prosecute.

>> Yeah.

They put the victim through a lot.

>> Mhm.

>> So, did Riley start to move on with her life? >> She’s working and and she had other, you know, other community, you know, so he just kind of kept going.

>> The next part of this story kind of starts for you around May 2021.

So, that’s almost, you know, nearly a year later.

It feels like a jump scare to say and ask, but how did you find out about the murder-for-hire plot? >> Um so, at this point we lived in rural Idaho.

Um and we don’t get like knocks on the door or you know, we didn’t we had um just we we hadn’t lived there long.

I think only one person had ever knocked on our door and it was because our goat had gotten out.

That’s how rural we were.

Like, nobody ever.

And I had just walked in from work.

It was probably 3:30 in the afternoon and a pounding was on the door and um I go to the door and there’s a sheriff there and I kind of step out because I you know, I don’t know what he’s there for.

I thought maybe my goat had gotten out.

I really did, like in the moment.

Um that’s what they do in those small towns.

The police come to your door to let you know that your livestock has escaped, you know.

And um he’s like, does Riley older live here? And I yes.

Um what’s what’s going on? Cuz when a sheriff asks asked me does Riley live here? What could she possibly have done? You know, I Is she goes to work, she comes home.

Um I just shock, I think.

And he’s like something to the I I It’s very hard to recall everything he said, but something to the effect of well, I’ll just talk to you.

There has been a credible threat made to your daughter’s life.

And I hm, I’m sorry, what? Um I didn’t even know what to say, but he’s talking and he’s telling me that the FBI had contacted him earlier in the day and asked him to make first contact.

That he can’t tell me too much.

Um but that someone had attempted to hire a hitman to kill Riley.

And I’m just standing I’m still in my work uniform.

I’m just standing in my front yard just mouth probably agape.

Um >> I can’t even imagine.

It’s just like the words FBI murder plot hitman, like they’re things you’re not as a normal family living in Idaho, you’re not expecting to hear that.

>> No, that is the definition of surreal.

Right? You you you you you you you >> [clears throat] >> you just kind of I don’t know.

He’s like, I we I would like if you and Riley would come down to the station so we can get a statement.

And I was like, okay.

So, um he’s like, don’t I I have to ask you not to say anything to Riley.

I have to ask you not to tell her why.

>> [laughter] >> Well, as soon as I walk in this house, all my kids are going to be asking why are the police here? And they probably, you know, they’re going to be asking me, so what what do I say? And he’s like, well, you can ride in my car or you can meet me there.

And I’m like, I will meet you there.

We’ll meet you there.

So I kind of walk in my house and all my kids are in the living room just like, what’s going on? You know, like what’s happening? >> And I’m like, I >> [clears throat] >> I can’t tell you.

Um everybody’s okay.

Everything is okay.

But Riley and I have to go talk to him.

And my friend is like, what? What? Her little face, you know, just utter shock of like, what? You know, she’s probably going over the past few days like, did I run a red light? Did I, you know, what did I do? Um And so we get in the car and I’m like, it’s okay, you know, and it’s about a 10-minute drive to the sheriff’s station and and um I couldn’t tell her anything.

>> That’s hard.

>> share anything with her.

And it’s a small town sheriff’s office and he we meet him and he’s walking through and taking us to a room and and we sit down and and um he tells her.

And her like the the look I will never forget the look on her face.

Like ever.

Just And he starts to tell us that um somebody paid $10,000 in Bitcoin on the dark web to have her killed.

And I hadn’t even heard that like that part.

I just the you know, that someone had hired someone.

And um he’s describing what’s going to happen, you know, the FBI, um just found it.

We’ll put a car at your house, kind of a thing.

But I want to ask you, do you know anybody that would want to have you? Cuz he asked me that.

He did ask me that out front of my house.

Do you know anybody that would want her dead? And I’m like, no.

Like, she doesn’t know of anyone.

There’s no one.

And um he asked her in that room.

And I could see the realization in her face.

And she looked at me and she goes, you don’t think it’s Scott, do you? Cuz she doesn’t know anyone else.

Like, she doesn’t interact like that with I mean, her co-workers, sure, but and I’m like, I don’t know, Riley.

I I it maybe, you know.

And he immediately honed in on it.

Who’s Scott? So um she had to recount her story.

There, again.

And I had to hear it again.

And I know that that that that sounds selfish, and I don’t mean it to come across that way, but as a mom hearing that again.

>> That’s hard.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

So, he kind of gave us some information on the agents that were going to be in contact with us and and um said he would put a car up in front of our house, but he doesn’t think there’s a threat um because he said, I can’t explain everything to you, but the the threat was intercepted.

At this point, we thought that it was a real hit man um at the time.

And then I guess I I believe he made a phone call and asked if he could tell us a little bit, so we we knew it wasn’t real and or not real, but that’s got a head he’d been scammed out of his money.

And my thought at the time was um what if he realizes he’s been scammed and he tries somewhere else, you know? So, that’s the reason they put the car at our house.

>> Did they say what was in the threat? Because he asked for very specific things to happen to your daughter.

He asked for proof of life photos.

He wanted it to look like a robbery gone wrong.

Like he knew what he wanted.

That’s eerie.

That’s horrible.

When did you find out about those details? >> Yeah.

Not so much later.

Not till um I believe the second visit with the FBI.

>> Yeah.

>> Um because he said he This [clears throat] was new for this sheriff deputy.

He had not He’s in a small town.

He just wasn’t sure what he was able to tell us.

So, he kind of kept his mouth shut.

Um so, it was several days um I believe it was a Friday.

I It was towards the weekend before we could go um to the FBI and get more information.

But he said they’d be in contact with us and they’d set up a meeting, and um we had to go to um downtown, the city >> [clears throat] >> um to meet them a few days later.

So, it wasn’t until then that we heard um that he wanted more things, and that’s all they said at first.

He wanted more things.

So, we didn’t know what that was really for quite some time.

Couple weeks, probably.

>> Was it the podcast The Kill List that actually alerted police of Riley’s hit? >> Mhm.

How does that make you feel? It was a podcaster, not even the police that found this.

>> They It wasn’t even on the police’s radar.

Um They Yeah, the podcast was doing an undercover investigation on the dark web, and they came across the Riley’s wasn’t the only one, and it wasn’t the first one.

And they came across multiple hit requests, and they tried to get the police involved locally and then in the UK, and um nobody would really pay attention, so they started reaching out to individual victims.

And by the time Riley’s case came up, um the FBI and the Interpol and everybody was involved.

>> The FBI turned around and asked of Jamie to basically go along with the plot for a little bit, to fake her death.

Tell me about that because for someone that’s already quite traumatized by everything they’ve just heard, that feels like a really big thing to ask someone to do.

>> Sure.

I think a lot of this comes down to just shock.

You know, when you’re in that much shock, you’re just kind of like, “Okay.

” You know, it doesn’t seem real.

So, when we went to the FBI office that Monday morning, um she had to recount her story again.

Um and it was a strange FBI office.

Like, we weren’t allowed in the inner office.

Like, there were multiple locked doors, and we came in just a tiny little room with a tiny little table, and she would count her story, and they asked her for her phone.

Um so, because they wanted all the copies of text messages and all the Discord messages and all the Facebook messages and they wanted everything.

And so they got it and they were um working on it and there were so many that they asked us to leave the phone because it was going to take days because with with certain of the apps there’s no way to just download it all.

They did Discord where they had a machine that scrolled and screenshotted each message.

>> Oh, how painful.

>> So, the invasion of privacy alone for a young girl um that bothered her at first, you know, but she’s like it is what it is, you know, we’re going to have to get through it.

And then when we came back to get the phone for the next interview, that’s when they asked us um they told us they were going to be setting up some form of operation.

They wouldn’t tell us much about it.

And the case was being transferred to the LA California FBI office.

And they were going to be handling it.

Um so this agent was getting excited.

Uh you could tell he was like chomping at the bit to like catch this guy, you know.

Um and he’s like um we want we want to catch him and we want to we want to use, you know, a a faked death photo.

How would you feel about that? And Riley’s [clears throat] like okay, if it’ll catch him, I I guess.

So, he made a phone call to um I can only remember her first name, Caitlin, who was the other FBI agent in LA and asked if that’s something that they would like.

And they said yes.

In the meantime, he had made a phone call to her and said, “You guys can go in town or whatever, have some lunch, something like that, and I’ll let you know.

” And um so we went to a coffee shop and we’re just kind of sitting talking about it.

We’re like, “Riley, how do you feel about posing for a corpse photo?” You know, we’re having this conversation and I get a text message on my phone from the FBI agent.

Something to the effect I wish I still had it, but it was so 007-looking silliness.

It just the oddity of it.

It’s basically like, “We are a go for the photo.

Meet us in the parking garage.

” >> Oh my god.

>> I’m like, “Am I in a Lifetime movie? Am I Am I in a movie?” You know, like this is ridiculous.

So, we pull out of there out of the coffee shop and they’re coming out of the parking garage in this like black tinted sports car.

>> I shouldn’t be laughing.

>> And he’s like, “We’re going to go to the local zoo area.

” So, Boise, the city of Boise, Idaho is very heavily treed.

Um and there’s a river that runs straight through the city and it’s it runs by the zoo.

So, um the agent gets out, we get out.

He’s like, “We’re going to go down by the river in the mud and the leaves and take this photo.

” So, it was the agent and a um forensic specialist.

Um he wanted him there so that it would look more realistic.

They could pose Riley laying in the leaves and the mud more realistically.

And they laid her down and they had her put her forearm up.

She had a distinctive tattoo that Scott had described to the hitman.

Um and they laid her out and the agent just took his cell phone and took a couple pictures.

And he showed it to the forensic guy and he’s like, “Ooh, I like that your foot is in the photo.

That looks like you’re the killer.

That looks good.

That works.

” They were like jazzed about getting this guy.

Like really.

And Riley got up and I picked the leaves out of her hair and we went home.

>> Did it have an effect on her doing that? >> Yeah.

Nightmares.

I mean, not that she wasn’t already having them, but um they showed me the photo.

They showed us the photo.

That is a really strange moment.

Cuz that could have been a reality.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and she eventually got that tattoo covered.

>> Because of what? >> wanted to look at it again.

>> I kind of get from the way you’re talking that you felt like the FBI agents may have lacked a bit of empathy or understanding.

Do you >> they really love their job.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, and I at first, yeah.

I mean, at first I did feel that way, but can you imagine their job? >> Yeah.

>> Like I can’t even imagine.

And I think that if you don’t have some form of levity in that line of work, I don’t know how a good and decent human being would survive.

So, um if if it means if they have to get excited about their job to catch the bad guy, I, you know, I’m okay with it.

Because at the end of the day, they’re not the ones that hurt her, you know? Um and it and it turned out that he was caught.

So.

>> When you look at it now in hindsight, do you think it was necessary to put her through all of that? >> They had him.

They had him.

I mean, they they had him and when they did this thing, they really had him.

Um and then the yeah.

They never um They never used the photo.

So.

Um that I know of.

It’s not in any of the court documents that they ever used it.

So, um they also shortly after that um interaction, um I sent all of my children to Arizona to stay with my mother because I was worried that he was going to show back up.

And um so, I sent them all to Arizona.

And while in Arizona, they hooked up with the Arizona FBI and that agent had my mother take Riley to the local grocery store and take stalker photos of her as if she were the hitman.

So, my my mother, Nana, is at a grocery store, um the local Walmart, in that small town cuz she’s in a small town as well, taking pictures of Riley and they did use those photos.

>> Playing hitman.

>> Mhm.

And they used those photos.

The hitman sent them to him like, “Is this her?” kind of things.

>> So, they arrested him? They charged him with using interstate facilities to commit murder for hire? Locked him up straight away, kind of no bail? How did you both feel when that happened? >> Relieved.

Relieved.

Um I was relieved.

I was glad that there was a it was a female judge that um held him on remand because he had a team of lawyers.

His His family is well-off and he had a team of lawyers and they worked really hard to try to get him out on his own um or get him out on bond and she was like no.

We’re not having that.

>> Well, they’re basically using character references to try and get him out.

>> Mhm.

They were.

And then while he was in he tried to bribe an inmate, a fellow inmate, another I believe 10,000 to falsify evidence and get him an alibi.

>> So, that seemed done.

And then he’s basically shown his hand there.

>> Yeah.

But they didn’t charge him with that crime.

So.

>> Why? >> I don’t know.

So, when all was said and done the um the judge was changed to um a man who I believe has a history of slapping people on the wrist.

Um that’s just my opinion.

It was um he cut a deal.

The max you can get for that crime is 10 years.

And they cut a deal for five.

So, um at sentencing, um you know, the judge can decide but there were a ton of character witnesses that came out for him writing letters and I didn’t know.

We had written our um victim impact statements and sent them and Ry didn’t want to go to the sentencing.

And um so, we didn’t go.

We sent our letters.

So, after the sentencing the prosecuting um attorney and Caitlyn the FBI agent called me um to kind of debrief me over what happened.

And they were both women and they were they were like appalled.

>> Mhm.

>> It was It was weird talking to them afterwards because they were telling me about how the sentencing went and um the character witnesses and the letters and things like that and um they were like, “Yeah, we were just shocked at some of the things that the character witnesses said, some of the things the judge said.

” And so they gave me little bits of it that information.

There was a character witness that stated while in college he would volunteer to escort young women from classes or dorms late at night so they would be safe.

And that made him a good guy.

>> What? >> Mhm.

Yeah.

>> And that worked apparently.

>> Apparently, it did.

Um the judge I have the exact words somewhere because I downloaded all of the court docs, but you can see it in there.

Um when he’s talking to Scott and doing the sentencing “You’re a young man >> Mhm.

>> with a bright future” kind of a thing, you know? Um “I can’t see sentencing you to all this time.

So 5 years seems appropriate so that you can I want you to come out of this and and make better for yourself and >> This is 2022 this sentence.

>> Mhm.

>> I can’t believe that mindset is still happening in 2022.

>> Mhm.

>> Like at the end of the day, he hired a hit man to murder his ex-girlfriend.

>> Mhm.

>> How did Riley feel hearing he could have gotten 10? He got five.

>> She was I know she was angry.

>> Mhm.

>> I know she was angry, but it it Riley just moves on.

She doesn’t hold I don’t know that it was a survival technique of just not holding on to the anger and the resentment and the you know, um I think she was angry at first and then she just kind of went on.

Went on.

I was livid.

>> Mhm.

>> I was livid.

Speaking to the FBI agent and the prosecuting attorney that day at the sentencing.

Um I asked them, “Are you going to charge him with trying to bribe an inmate to falsify evidence?” “Oh, I don’t know.

We’re we might.

I don’t know yet.

We might.

” And I’m like, that could have gotten him some more time, you know, and he’s obviously not sorry.

You know, I mean, of course his statement, he’s sorry.

I’m sorry, but he wasn’t sorry.

He was sorry he got caught.

>> Mhm.

Is he still in prison? >> No, ma’am.

So, um he did time in a very cushy prison.

And um it was supposed to be five years.

>> Yeah.

>> And over here we have like a victim’s notification system.

So, Riley had signed up for the victim notification system, so they would know when he was getting out and different things like that and um every couple of months we would get she would get an email.

“Oh, we’ve moved up his release date two months.

We’ve we’ve moved We’ve moved it up two more months.

we’ve moved it up two more months.

And um every time she would get that email, I was just like she was terrified.

Um >> Was there a reason given as to why? >> His behavior, just because.

>> Yeah, right.

>> There was you know, there were a couple of other um court hearings that his attorneys were trying to get him out sooner, but the judge knocked it down.

It’s just prisons are so overcrowded here that there’s a lot of early releases.

And um so after I believe it’s April of ’24, they put him in a halfway house.

And then um she was supposed to be notified before he was released.

And um in November of ’24 we had we had the last notification we got that he was going to be released around Thanksgiving of ’24 completely.

So in November of ’24, I just looked it up to see when his release date was.

And they had released him on October 11th and not told her.

>> What was the point of signing up? >> I don’t know.

My guess is as good as mine, but they did not tell her and we were he was out for a month before we even knew.

So May May May 21st of ’21, he was arrested and he was fully released October 24th.

>> Is there a fear knowing he’s out there again? Do you think he would do anything? >> Uh he’s supposed to not make contact, right? Um he’s not supposed to be able to he’s got 6 years of probation.

I don’t even know if that has been um if that has been lifted or shortened.

Um we don’t get notified on things like that anymore.

But, he’s not supposed to be utilizing the internet to contact her or, you know, try to contact her or through third parties.

But, with the internet, you can be anyone.

She could be talking to him and she wouldn’t know it if she were on the internet, you know? >> Does she think he has contacted her? >> No.

>> Yeah.

You have made it your mission to make sure that Scott Quinberg it doesn’t get to, in your words, live in the shadows.

Can you tell us about that? >> Since this happened, someone knocks on our door and everyone hides.

My children hide.

They get quiet.

I have a sign that is at the end of my driveway that says no unannounced visitors, period.

If you know us, call first.

If you If you don’t know us, you have no business here.

But, inevitably, some door-to-door salesman will knock.

Um, pound, you know? And a creek outside, even now, um, where I won’t sleep.

You know, she stays awake.

And the thing is is that the hit was put out before my daughter threatened him.

Before any of that.

He knew what he did.

And he was worried about getting caught.

Before my oldest daughter ever called him, the hit was already out.

>> Yes.

And we didn’t know that till after the court, but yes.

He knew what he did.

If my child Mhm.

can’t live free, he shouldn’t either.

>> She’s very lucky to have you advocating for her.

>> Mhm.

I want to ask you about Abigail if I can.

You you lost your daughter Abby to suicide last year in January 2024.

So, that’s a lot of trauma for one mom to be carrying.

You’ve lost your daughter.

You’ve had another daughter who’s been sexually assaulted and gone through this horrific court process.

How do you hold all of that? How how are you doing with all of that? >> I have a purpose.

Um I have my faith.

And I have a purpose.

So, now I talk about not only Riley’s story, but Abigail’s story.

Um Yeah, I just talk about it.

I I want suicide is We’ve got a couple.

Our family’s been touched by a couple of the biggest issues we have in our society, in any country.

One is suicide.

It is the second leading cause of death of children between the ages of 10 and 24.

>> Crazy.

>> It is the biggest thing hitting our our our children right now.

And number two, boys being boys.

>> Mhm.

>> That’s a big problem.

Boys being boys.

And I don’t mean that in all men are bad or anything like that.

I’m just saying that’s what judges say.

>> Mhm.

>> Boys will be boys.

>> Still.

>> Oh, this young man’s got a bright future.

That’s how I hold it together.

And maybe it’s a little bit It’s not vengeance, it’s justice.

>> Talking about your girls, advocating for them, you’re big on the Tik Tok space.

You’ve been talking a lot there.

What kind of difference has it made? Has it helped others? Has it helped you? Has it helped everyone? What have you noticed? >> It’s helped me immensely.

Um I know it’s a little cringe having almost 50-year-old woman on Tik Tok.

>> No.

>> You know, a little cringe.

Some of my stuff is a little cringey.

I’m not going to lie.

But it’s almost like therapy, you know? I I tell the stories, I talk about the things, I go through the emotions, I talk about the awareness and the the little things that I’m doing to try to try to bring awareness to both Scott’s creepy face and and my sweet Abby.

And I know it’s helped me immensely.

And the people, God, perfect strangers are just phenomenal human beings, you know? They will show up for you.

Um but I know I’ve helped others.

And the community of moms out there that have that have um that I’ve made that have either their children or themselves have survived violent crimes or their mothers who have lost their children to suicide.

They’ll all tell you the same thing.

They’re telling their stories, too.

And people reach out to you in your private messages and say, “Thank you.

Thank you for telling that story.

I I can’t do I saw your face.

I couldn’t do that to my mother.

Um thank you for letting helping me see my value.

Thank And it’s not just me, it’s all the moms that are doing And some dads, too.

There are dads, too.

Good dads.

And And these kiddos, that’s where they’re at.

They’re on TikTok.

You know, when they see they come across these stories and they for whatever reason connect.

>> You’re saying these kids or young adults are coming to you and saying I didn’t go ahead with a suicide attempt because of your video.

>> Mhm.

Because of Abigail’s story.

>> Wow.

>> Or Andrew’s story or I just there are other there other there are other moms doing the same thing and I watch their comments and they we talk and they’re like, oh yeah, this little one sent me a message and you know, I talked to them on occasion, you know, they’ll and it it’s yeah, talking about it, showing the re- reality of the aftermath of suicide.

Yeah, it I don’t I can’t explain it, but these kids and not even just kids, but young adults and even older adults will send you a message and what a blessing that is, you know, that you that I was able to tell Abigail’s story and it helped one person, let alone multiple, you know, that’s huge.

>> How’s Riley doing now? How’s her 2026 looking? >> [clears throat] >> Worse.

>> Really? >> You know, I think uh we’ve we’ve had a lot of loss.

>> Oh.

>> Um my kids are definitely struggling.

You know, it’s only been it’ll be 2 years in January that we lost Abigail.

Um and we’ve kind of been on a whirlwind ride since 2020, you know.

So, and they’re you know, they don’t have the supports of their father.

So, they’re kind of and Riley’s still scared, you know.

Um when Abigail uh >> >> when that happened with Abigail um she quit working.

She just couldn’t, you know, just couldn’t.

And um she’s finding her way back to her art and back to reading >> >> and it’s a slow process.

But um yeah, just the hits kept coming for her, you know, for my kids and um I think it’s going to be a while before everything is even a semblance of normalcy.

>> Seeing what Riley went through first hand what do you want listeners who have heard her story and your story to understand about sexual assault, online relationships, the thought process.

What what do you want them to take away from hearing this conversation? >> Honestly be careful who you trust.

Be careful with the positions you put yourself in because even though it is not your fault that those things happened to you you’re the only one that can protect yourself because the creepy guy out there is not looking out for you.

And our justice system sure as hell isn’t looking out for you.

And as disgusting as it is that you have to constantly watch your back you just do.

And it’s the sad reality that we live in.

Do not think it won’t happen to you because I hear stories every day.

And every single one of them either doesn’t get any prosecution or they get a slap on the wrist and they’re skiing down a mountain side 2 years later on their daddy’s dollar.

>> Producer Tally here with a note to clarify that Scott Quinn Burket faced charges in a federal court for a single count of using interstate facilities to commit murder for hire.

Allegations shared by Jamie and Riley regarding an incident involving Riley have not resulted in any charges and there has been no prosecution related to sexual assaults.