The Romance Scam That Destroyed Her Life
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So, it made you a target.
>> Yes.
Very, very good point.
And if I can back up a little bit, were you looking to date? Were you lonely? Were you content? >> Just broken up with my partner of 5 and 1/2 years, like that was in October.
And then I met the scammer in April and was I guess looking, yeah.
Probably I was looking.
Okay.
And you actually met on Instagram, which isn’t known to be a dating app.
So, that probably gave more validity because you’re just networking and getting to know someone.
So, how did you guys first make contact? Can you tell me how this played out? >> I first met the first guy, Eric Johnson, on Instagram in December of 2021.
I had been single for about 3 months.
And I it was close to Christmas and I guess I was feeling a little lonely, but I wasn’t necessarily looking at that time, but his picture got me, I have to say.
His picture, there was something about he seemed to me like kind of everything I was looking for and just when we talked, he was very love bombing and very good at conversation.
>> Do you think his profile was purposely put together to match yours to show some continuity between you and him looking back now? >> Looking back now, it seems like there was something that was meant to match with mine.
>> So, they made it almost a match in heaven, so to speak.
Yes.
Okay.
So, what happened with Eric? He was the first gentleman that you had a scam-like relationship with, correct? Yes.
Okay.
So, go ahead, please.
What happened? >> And like this is just how um it can get you unexpectedly.
I never responded to any other weirdos, you know, like any strangers getting into my sighting into my DMs.
I immediately like deleted and blocked them because I wasn’t interested.
If I didn’t know you, I wasn’t interested.
So, I was already like vigilant and I didn’t care about strangers coming on to my page and trying to me and be friends with me and go out.
I was only caught off guard because it was right before Christmas.
I’d just been at a family gathering and everybody had their person and I was like single at the time.
So, when when Eric first contacted me out of the blue, it was December 1st.
I remember it was days before Christmas and I just felt lonely.
He caught me in a vulnerable moment.
I’d just walked in the door to my house and I was feeling like I wish I had somebody, you know, I love my family more than anything and then there was this other way to potentially grow the family, this beautiful handsome person.
>> It’s interesting because you you’re a very intelligent smart woman and you said something was very important.
Anytime you sensed that somebody was a little scammy, you blocked them.
You got rid of them because I I’d probably say a good third of profiles on social media are scam profiles, but do you think Eric sensed your vulnerability? Do you think purposely that he knew it was Christmas time? This is statistically when most people feel lonely if they don’t have a mate and they played off that? Probably.
I later found out like he was working for somebody, so he was getting all the tips and tricks and had the playbook the one the standard playbook, but yeah, it seemed like he caught me at a time when I I had a few days off from work.
I wasn’t working.
I was like suddenly missing having companionship.
And tell me about Eric.
What did he say he did for a living? How old of a gentleman was he? So, he was 40, a little bit younger than me.
Was it His parents had both passed away.
He grew up in Finland.
None of this is true.
He grew up in Finland, which was really neat, but he lived in New York City.
Been there for 20 years.
After his parents passed away when he was in his early 20s, he moved to US and started working in Is it in real estate? >> and at the time you were living in the Carolinas if I remember with our phone conversation.
So, basically the distance wasn’t that bad.
You could actually meet in person.
And did you ever suggest, “Hey Eric, let’s meet in person.
I’d really like to see you.
” Yes.
>> How did What happened there? So, I suggested that I would even go up there to New York even though I was busy remodeling my house and trying to get it done before New Year’s Eve.
I said, “Okay, maybe after New Year’s and then we’ll we’ll meet up in January.
Remember we’re chasing January.
I would like to see you.
” And this was after a few weeks of talking every single day and there was a lot of starting to be kind of feelings there.
And he Yeah, yeah, yeah, let’s figure it out.
Let’s figure it out and kind of played it off.
And then he had to suddenly go to to a job site overseas in Rwanda.
Rwanda.
And what did he say that he did that he had to go to Rwanda? What kind of job? Engineering.
Okay, we hear that one a lot.
So, I’m going to fast forward a little bit cuz you had told me that there were two individuals that you’ve you’ve dealt with.
This gentleman, when did you realize that this gentleman was a scammer and how did you realize that? So, Eric had been talking to me from December 21st till about mid-April and he had already in that time talked to me every single day.
We had done like a quick FaceTime.
We were falling for each other by January or so.
It’s pretty fast, couple weeks.
And then in February, he told me about an investment opportunity with Bitcoin where I could make a lot of money and he knew that I had houses and I said, “Okay, well, I have some savings that I’m willing to put towards this, but I need to save some of my savings for my house remodel and we can consider more down the road if this works out.
If this works, you know, if it makes the kind of money you’re talking about it making.
” So, did you open a joint Bitcoin account with him? I opened a I already had a Coinbase account and I was already doing some investing on cryptos.
I’d already been investing in the stock market and crypto.
I kind of rode that big roller coaster with Doge- Dogecoin and made $25,000 in like 2 weeks.
It was kind of crazy, but Good for you.
So, did you participate in this Bitcoin deal? Yes, I put in $100,000.
Okay, and >> Not all at once.
A little bit and then a little more and then like a $80,000 chunk.
>> Okay, and were you able to log in every day and see what’s happening with your money or was was he handling that? No, he I had a login and password and he let me set all that up.
He showed me pictures of where my money was and how it was invested and how it was growing.
Okay, so let’s fast forward just a little.
When did you realize that this isn’t really a Bitcoin purchase here? This is a scam.
What happened? He introduced me to his boss, Liam Stevens, who was in charge of it all.
And Liam, I told him I wanted to take the money out cuz I wanted to buy another house.
And then with some proceeds, I would maybe reinvest.
But it was going really well and I wanted to take it out.
And he told me about the tax that was required to get the money out, which was totally made up.
There were no lawyers, there were no, you know, his lawyer needed me to pay some more taxes in order to get the money out, but all the money I had was either tied up in real estate or this investment.
So I didn’t have any more in my bank account to put into paying these taxes.
And what I did try to pay a little bit, like I paid five He said, “We’ll just $500 then.
Let’s just start.
” And I paid that and then he said, “It’s going to have to be 500 more.
” And I was like, “What? Ridiculous.
I’ve never even heard of this anyway, so it would have been 500 more, 500 more, 500 Yeah, would have went on forever.
And were you seeing an account statement that would show that your 100 now has become 200, 250,000? Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was 273,000 and he was like hanging it over my head like a carrot.
Don’t you want this back? >> Absolutely.
Don’t you want this back? Absolutely.
So, what ultimately happened with that? When did it dawn on you that, “Hey, I’m being scammed.
” Probably like I was starting to question it after a month only.
Like things that weren’t lining up with their stories, the two of them, or with Eric himself.
Some of the conversations just didn’t make a whole lot of sense about him being in Rwanda and then the time zone, yet we could talk all the time and I’m pretty [clears throat] sure there were more than one of them.
I was just going to ask you that.
So you when you look back at the text, you were probably talking to three or four individuals.
Yeah.
And I know I was with Louise, the next guy.
That’s crazy.
Okay, so you come to the realization that this is a scam.
And unfortunately, you’re out a hundred thousand dollars.
What happened next? I told them both that I didn’t trust them anymore and that I was I mean some mean words were exchanged between on both sides.
I Yeah, they called me stupid and gullible and naive and all the things that maybe Americans might target towards me, but just if you do that, you’re just like the scammers.
So, they were basically admitting to you that you had been scammed.
Is that what I’m reading? Am I reading that correctly? They were admitting to me that I was naive and an idiot fell for it.
Wow.
So, they didn’t just disappear.
They wanted to kind of excuse my expression, but rub it in your face a little bit before they disappeared.
Is that correct? Wow, that is the first time I’ve heard that, and that’s just horrible.
So, we cut ties with Eric, and I guess there’s no way that you could reach him or find out anything about him at this point.
So, >> to get back in touch with me 8 months later, and it told me that he was a young man from South Africa, Johannesburg, who was trying to protect his sisters from being sex slaves.
So, that’s why he needed the money.
>> We’re going to get to that in a minute because that comes with your education, and that’s that’s a fabulous story.
It’s amazing what it did.
So, at this point you break ties with Eric.
You’re decide to go on Tinder, the dating app, and tell us what happened.
Because at that point I was one I ate.
I I had just been essentially broken up with, betrayed.
However, you want to describe it, it felt like a breakup.
Like a lot of the emotions that happened, and I know that some of your other past participants would say, “It feels very real, like totally real.
” The same chemicals are going through your brain that are when the person is standing there in front of you.
So, I couldn’t tell a difference at one point between reality and fiction, fact and fiction.
I’ve got to back up.
Let me ask you this question.
It just popped into my head.
So, we’re 2 months past with Eric.
Did you still wake up in the morning doubting yourself? Maybe he was real.
Maybe he did love you.
Like did I cut off my true love? Yes, probably there were I was still hypnotized to a degree.
I was still roped in, still missing him.
[clears throat] Yes, I was missing him.
And what you were still hoping for that happy ending.
Mhm.
Yeah, yeah, it’s it happens to everyone.
I can completely understand that.
Okay, so now we decide to go on Tinder and we decide, all right, I’m starting out fresh.
I want to meet someone.
Tell me what happens.
Well, I’ll just one I’ll back up for a second and say with Eric and with Louise, this next guy, they really paint a beautiful picture of your life and how it’s going to be.
Like all the things that you’re going to get, all the experiences you’re going to have together, not just the love, but all the things they’re going to give you and the travels that you’re going to get to be able to go on.
I mean, they literally let me write my own story of like, where would you want to go and what would you want to do if you if money wasn’t an issue.
And that’d be beautiful if it was actually true.
But the fact that it was a lie, they were using my own imagination to play tricks on me.
So basically an adult version of a princess story is what they create.
Mhm.
They’re sharp.
They’re sharp.
And we’ve touched on other episodes how they actually hire professional psychologists to come in and teach them how to trigger these chemicals in the brain to get very normal sensible people that are everyday in their business world very no nonsense, they trigger these chemicals to convince these people that they’re in love and to turn over their money.
It’s brilliant.
It is absolutely And here’s the most amazing thing to me, Jennifer.
These people don’t even live in our country.
So they know us better than we actually know ourselves in a lot of respects.
Would you agree with that? Yeah, they’re tapped into raw human emotion, which maybe in America we’ve like learned to kind of move past cuz we’re go go go and ambitious and busy in this culture, but they’re based out of countries where there’s just it’s it’s maybe a little more desperate, but it’s like raw human emotions that get involved with that.
And I guess I am a trusting person.
I feel like that was my biggest crime.
I don’t think I fell for anything.
I don’t think I was an idiot.
I think I trusted and >> person.
You were a very good person just like our two other ladies that we interviewed.
Purest hearts of anyone I’ve ever met and I sense that with you, too.
So, tell me about Louise.
How old was he? Was he a good-looking guy? Did he live in the US? So, yeah, this is where like my heart part was really more It wasn’t an investment.
It was a true romance scam with Louise.
And he It wasn’t that he was good-looking.
He was just his picture was just like a very normal man.
He was like seemed mature and at that point I was like 45, I think.
So, I just I was like, “Okay.
I love your gray stubble.
I love your sunglasses.
I love your, you know, let’s be normal older aging adults together.
” Okay.
So, the Well, he was Yeah, like 48, a couple years older than me.
Didn’t mention anything about children.
He’d had a wife who cheated on him and he’d been divorced for about, you know, 2 years or something and he hadn’t He had been playing around with dating, but like hadn’t found anybody serious until he met me and then he felt like I was the one and it was serious and I was the one that was a little more cautious now at this point because having been through what I’d been through with Eric, I wasn’t like all in at all.
I was a lot more cautious.
Where did he say he lived? He was in LA.
Okay.
And you’re still in the Carolinas at this point, correct? >> Yes, but I had traveled over I’d traveled to LA and I think it picked up the I don’t know, the You mean on the dating app when you the GPS coordinates? Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, that probably is the situation.
So, I have to ask you.
Obviously, this guy with these gray sunglasses and this gray stubble, you want to meet him in person.
How did that work out? Um well, I had to go back to North Carolina soon after meeting him online and so I wasn’t thinking, let’s meet right away.
I just wanted to like I said, I was a little more guarded and a little more standoffish.
I did think it was smart to meet, but I thought maybe he could come to me this time and he said he would.
That’s how a lot of that happened was that he was going to come to North Carolina to see me.
Okay.
So, at this point would you say you’re emotionally hooked? You’re in love with Louise.
No, no.
I’m still getting over Eric.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
So, when do we get to the point where Louise has hooked you in? You’re committed to him.
Let’s see.
He was very good at, you know, coming up with a story too.
He wasn’t a orphan, but I don’t know where his parents were.
He never I think New York.
He was raised in New York or something supposedly and he told me all about his schooling and his education at the University of California in Southern California.
I forget the name already, but he was telling me a lot about his life and his choices.
He was also an engineer, which is like red flag.
Don’t date engineers.
Yeah, and oil rig workers.
They seem to go hand in hand with the dating scams.
Or army, navy or you know, people in the military.
>> Exactly.
Or doctors or yeah, there’s certain people that >> our viewers, please take note of that.
Please.
It could save you thousands.
Okay.
So, Yeah.
So, things are moving along and you’re talking every day.
When did he start talking to you about building a commitment, about building a life together? I feel like we were maybe into So, this was we were coming out of the COVID time period.
It was like April 2022 and I wanted to do some traveling and we I guess he he really used that as a selling point that like where do you want to travel? And then he started talking about he was big into traveling, he needed to go to Dubai to do a job out there.
And that I could come out there at some point and meet him.
Or that’s how [clears throat] he got out of going to North Carolina to see me.
He said he had to go to Dubai for work.
And how long was he going to be gone? You know, a few months, but a few months turned into 2 years cuz we talked for 2 years.
And he was in Dubai the whole time or supposedly in Dubai.
Yeah.
Okay.
Supposedly.
So, you talked for 2 years.
How many months, how many years were you in the relationship before the first request for money came or the first emergency situation appeared? So, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November.
I sent him money in November.
So, that’s 7 months.
Okay.
And what was the money for? What did he say, “Hey, you hun, I need money for this.
” And what was it? Yeah, it was um this great investment opportunity in Dubai.
I think I was like pretty I guess hypnotized or you know, it’s just the way that that that they build you into so much conversation for so long that then you trust that what they’re saying is true.
And he’s sending pictures of the job site and pictures uh I could log onto his bank account and see that he had $5 million in there and Wow.
Wow.
Very similar to what we’ve seen with our other victims.
And how much did you first send him? So, the investment was like 67,000.
It’s a random number.
I don’t know why.
It probably translated more accurately into his actual money wherever the actual country is that he lives in, which is probably South Africa.
South Africa.
Okay, and we we definitely are going to touch on that cuz it’s amazing what you were able to do.
So, were there additional requests for money? I mean, you’re working you’re in this relationship now I guess about 8, 9 months when the first request comes in.
So, play it through for me.
What happens next? >> Okay, 67,000 was gone.
That was in November.
I had a really low point.
November 2022, I lost the other 67,000, which got my bank account was back at zero.
I was really financially struggling at that point, but I still had I had the house I was living in and one investment house next door.
>> you’re still talking to him every day, but he’s told you, “Look, that investment I told you about went bust.
” Did that create tension between you or how did that play out? No, he kept saying he would pay me back.
He kept saying, “Don’t worry, it’s going to come back to you and more.
” Okay.
And again, this is the guy that has shown you bank statements where he has over $5 million in his account.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, like I logged in, I could look at it.
>> Okay.
Did he say he put some of his own money into this investment also? I mean, he had $5 million in his account.
Yeah, I mean, part like the he was pretty in, he said, with this investment.
And then when he got to Dubai, his account was locked.
And he couldn’t access his $5 million, but he needed to be able to pay people.
So, I think that’s where some of my money supposedly went or that was part of the his story.
Okay.
I worry that’s not what happened to it, but that was his story that he needed to pay some of his He needed to pay out so that he could this job so that I could so that he could tell it so that we could share the profits.
Oh, you were going to share the profits.
So, there was the return on investment.
I see.
Okay.
So, obviously, he says he’s going to pay the 67,000 back.
When does the next request or the next emergency situation appear? So, in June of 2023, I sent him $250,000.
That was sent all at once.
I’ll never forget.
I pulled over on the side of the road to do it, and I knew I knew I was making a mistake.
I just knew it, and I wish I could go back in time and tell myself, you know, I wish the bank lady had She did tell me that, you know, crypto’s a scam and >> And be they? I told me that.
Be careful.
Just thought she was out of touch and old-fashioned cuz she didn’t know about Bitcoin cuz she was like in her 60s, and mostly younger people know about Bitcoin because it’s like or whatever, but that’s not the case.
She was right, and I And was this 250,000 in cash assets that you had sitting in the bank, or was this something you had to liquidate? I had to liquidate my last house that I was living in.
So, you cared enough about this guy that you put your home up for sale and liquidated it, and basically made yourself homeless.
Where did you live after that? >> I moved in with my family, and my family were also very worried about all this, too, and, you know, they tried to warn me, too.
In fact, you know, my sister said, “I need this guy to scam her.
I need you to stop talking to him right now.
” And did he suggest to you that you should put your home up for sale, or was that something you freely He did.
Wow.
And at first, did you tell him that >> at nothing.
They’ll stop at nothing, literally.
That’s amazing.
And did he know the house was up for sale, and what you sold it for, and what you were getting? Were you open with him about that? No.
So, this is the interesting part, and this is this is how I know that they do their research.
I can actually verify that him from overseas, wherever he was, Dubai or South Africa, wherever, he I kept it a secret that I was selling the house.
I never told him when I got offers.
I never told him when it closed.
I never told him what I made.
I never told him what I profited.
I never told him that it was in my bank account.
I never told him a single thing.
I kept it from him cuz at this point, I already knew something was wrong.
So, I was like What? holding information from my partner, husband.
And he found out.
He said, “I know you sold the house.
” So, you were really liquidating these funds to make yourself whole.
He hadn’t asked you for money at this point then, correct? Yeah, I mean, I needed I needed some more money in my account.
I needed some better cash flow.
I’ve been there.
I can completely understand where you’re coming from.
Yeah.
So, the money sitting in your savings account, money market, whatever, how long is it sitting there before he hits you with, “Hey, I know you sold your house.
Why did you keep this from me?” So, I sold it in April of 2023, a year after knowing him, and he knew through probably one of these many tools that we use to to verify that I am now since used to verify people’s stories and make sure they’re telling me the truth, which is like TruthFinder, catfish.
org, and some of these others, uh PeopleFinders.
You can find out anything about people anymore, and it’s and it’s on record.
So, I can go online and find out what my next door neighbor owns in assets and real estate.
It’s kind of scary.
>> Yes.
Yes, you can.
I And I’ve heard, and I don’t know if this is still the case, you can pay $15 to the IRS and get a copy of someone’s tax return.
The not even your own return, someone else’s.
I don’t know if that’s still the case, but I know in the 1990s that was the case.
I I hope they’ve stopped that.
And so, you’re right.
I mean, we are fully on display.
We are like a digital billboard on a highway.
Yeah.
It’s an unfortunate situation.
So, did he make you Did he guilt you, make you feel guilty that you were going to hold onto this money and keep it from him? Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
He cried.
He was like, “Where is the trust? Where is the love? How could you do this to me? How did you not feel like it? I’m your husband.
Don’t you think it’s important to share this information with me about a house?” And like, I would have I would have given you advice about I mean, I just can’t believe you just did this without talking to me first and consulting.
That’s interesting.
Now, you’ve referred to him twice as your husband.
Were you legally married? >> No.
No.
No.
No.
He just He called me his wife.
And it’s part of the manipulation.
I’m sure that’s what the psychologist tell these guys.
Yes, they do.
>> Go Go ahead and say you’re husband and wife.
Go ahead and Go ahead and close that deal.
You are so right.
And that technique to show disappointment, cry, shame you for keeping something from him, that is one of the biggest techniques that they use.
And it looks like he did it and he deserved an Oscar for it, is what it sounds like.
Oh, yeah.
He was really really slick.
Really really good.
He never wavered in his story.
I mean, Eric and Liam wavered in their story and they I mean, I saw red flags and I was like, this isn’t lining up.
But Eric, I mean, Luis was like a five-star actor.
Oh, yeah.
That well-trained.
>> Very very, yeah, well-trained.
All right, Jen.
So, you send 250,000 and you know in the pit of your stomach, I am making a mistake here.
What happens next? I mean, cuz I had planned to put that money into a long-term asset like a I mean, I’d talked to my sister, my CPA, everybody was like, you have to this is your last chance.
You’ve already lost a a bunch of money cuz I had told them cuz cuz my CPA had to do my taxes and she’s, you know, scolding me and telling me, you messed up once, don’t do it again.
And so, the plan was I was going to put this into a an ETF that pays back like 5%.
>> Mhm.
[clears throat] I’d done it under my LLC and made 6%, I think.
Very safe investment, absolutely.
So, now you don’t have the chance to do that.
Luis has the 250,000.
Is he gone at this point or are you still interacting with him? I’m still interacting with him.
I’m I’m, you know, what changes after that is that he says he’s going to get a plane ticket and come and see me.
And then, fast forward to I think it was August, 2 months later, he was on the plane.
I mean, he was on the plane and then he was quickly escorted off the plane by security and taken to a questioning room where they took his passport and wouldn’t let him leave the country of Dubai and of the UAE.
And he was all his more assets were frozen and they took his passport.
Yeah, but essentially they took his passport.
>> What was the reason they pulled him off the plane supposedly? >> He didn’t tell me everything, but he was he played dumb.
Like I don’t know what this is about.
I don’t understand.
I don’t know why why I’ve not done anything wrong.
It was Yeah, it wasn’t about like the gold and the diamonds.
Okay, so let me paint the picture here.
The 250,000 is gone.
Is his bank account of $5 million still locked up or was it Okay, so when they pulled him off the plane, everything’s frozen again.
What happens next? What does he ask for? Well, he knows I don’t have anything.
So, at that point I’m crystal clear that I don’t have anything.
More I don’t have any more money.
I don’t have any more properties to sell.
I’m tapped out.
That doesn’t deter him at all.
That day this is why there’s no lengths to which they’ll go.
He started trying to launder money through me.
So, he saw me as tapped out, but hooked in.
So, I’m still a channel of money.
He just has to get creative and get other people to send me money and send it through me to him.
Jen, I have to stop right here and and just tell our viewers when we spoke by phone last week, your story could be a New York bestsellers story.
I mean, it is just phenomenal.
You had everything, romance, crime, drama.
The only thing that was missing was espionage and maybe there is some as we talk today, but it is and and I don’t mean to laugh, but this is horrendous what you’ve been through.
It is absolutely horrendous.
drama show, movie, documentary, something.
Yeah, it’d be The viewership would be through the roof.
So, now he’s turning the table.
He wants you to move or launder money for him? Don’t say it like that.
He explained and and I told him I was like >> Of course not.
Yes.
sound.
This isn’t sound legit.
And he’s like, I absolutely know these people.
This is absolutely legit.
Everything is fine.
They’re friends of mine.
They just can’t send it directly to me cuz my account’s locked up, so they have to send it to you and you can send it to me through Bitcoin on the same platform we’d been trading on at that point.
Which for for Eric it was Coinbase and for Louise it was Gemini.
Same thing, just different preferences, I guess.
These are the And when they show you what to do, they are masters at their app.
So, for some other people it might be crypto.
com or nobody wanted to use Robinhood, which is funny.
You can’t send it.
That’s that’s more like protect or something.
>> It is third There are more as self apes on that, you know, so you’re absolutely right.
So, >> on Robinhood if you’re going to do these.
Not any of those others.
They haven’t made it safe enough.
Like I never I deleted all my Not my Like I still have access to all my history, but I don’t trade on those platforms anymore.
Okay.
So, he said how much money was going to be showing up is What did it go into one of your accounts or did he make you open a joint account with his name, your name? No, not with his name on it, but yeah, he asked me to open an account.
So, I had Wells Fargo for the longest time, like personally had Wells Fargo for like 15 years, never an issue ever ever ever.
There was never a problem with Wells Fargo until he sent me something like $60,000 and I was supposed to send it on.
And when I did, I sent it on to him, but then later on the back end there was a claim and this should have been a red flag and it was There was a claim from whoever sent that 60,000 to get it back.
And so, then my they got it back from the bank and then my account was -60,000.
Wow.
So, in other words, it it didn’t go through to him.
Is he irate at that point? Does he say, “Hey, what the” >> get it.
Oh, he did get it.
Okay.
>> it.
Okay.
>> this middle time between before the bank could catch it that it was fraud and stop it, it had already cleared my account and I had already sent it to him.
So, my account was back at zero.
I shouldn’t have kept it.
I should have kept it.
I gave it back, which I ended up doing the next time cuz I learned from this mistake.
So.
Tell me about the next time.
So, how much did he tell you was coming into the account the next time? So, there was another attempt to send me 121,000.
It also did not work.
And there was another attempt to send me 96,000, and it also did not work.
And these were different banks.
There was I had a Bank of America account, it didn’t work, they closed it.
They closed the Wells Fargo account, they closed the Bank of America account, the banks did, because they were like, “Fraud.
” And then at First Citizen, they closed that.
At this point, I had like no account left.
I had like TD.
And I kept telling them, “I can’t open any more banks, because they’ve all closed, because this is just not going well.
I don’t know like what you’re involved in, dude.
” >> So, you’re flagged now, it’s hard for you to walk into a bank and open up a legitimate account, because you remember when you opened your account, you had to surrender identification.
So, they have all that on file.
I I know that but just with clients that I work with.
So, at this >> never open an account with Wells Fargo again, or Bank of America, or First Citizens.
I mean, they Absolutely.
Well, they’ll just >> wrong, I mean, It’s tough.
It’s tough.
So, tell me, what does he do at this point? Does he say, “I’ll just try this bank, try that bank.
” What happens? >> So, we tried Chase, because it’s a big one and lots of money can move through it, and they hadn’t I’d never banked with them before, so we opened a Chase account.
Then that’s when that is fast forward to September of 2024 at this point.
So, a lot of the little amounts, like the 60 and the 121 and the 98, those were small compared to what came next.
Those were small compared to what he had up his sleeve in September, which was a $319,000 ended up in my account.
Just randomly one day, just popped into my account.
>> And it cleared.
It was sitting there, it was seasoning in your account.
>> Yeah.
So, this one got through, absolutely.
Now, that’s ironic, because just doing the math in my head, that’s probably about the amount of money that you had given him, 250 plus the 67.
That’s really smart of you cuz that’s exactly how much I gave to him.
And that’s exactly why I was like, this is a sign.
This is why I hung on.
I didn’t tell him this, but I was thinking to myself, this is why I hung on.
I got the money back.
Yay, I got the money back.
And I did a happy dance and told my family, don’t worry, I I got scammed, but I got all of it back.
Everything’s fine now.
So, it’s sitting in your account, and did you think, all right, let me open another bank account and transfer this money out and just disappear from Is Did you >> Okay.
All right.
What happens next? Oh my god.
So, this is the part that I feel like I need to put my seat belts on for because it all happened really fast.
Like three crazy things happened in September.
Boom, boom, boom.
September 6th, I get this money into my account.
Ironically, it’s the exact same amount that I had been stolen from by him.
And at this point, I knew he was a scammer.
But I had that in my account and I was like, good, I stole it from the scammer.
Not going to send it to him and I deleted and blocked him.
If I can stop you and then you can continue.
You said at this point I knew he was a scammer.
When did the light go off? With some of those money laundering attempts.
Probably, [clears throat] it was the 250,000.
I was already like really on the fence, but I was still hoping really, really believing and wishing and trusting.
And then the first money laundering attempt of 60,000, when that got >> pulled back when that all happened, when he didn’t come on the airplane.
So, it was like August, September, October of 2023, I was like, this is not normal at all.
Like, I am mad.
I’m sad.
I’m all the feelings.
I can’t believe I’ve been I’m pretty sure I’ve been stolen from.
All that hard, hard work has just been drained from my life, my bank account.
What am I going to do? What am I going to do? What am I going to Oh my god.
When I was feeling really desperate.
And I shared a lot of that with him.
And he was sad for me, but he did he really didn’t care.
He was like playing the next He was playing the long game with me.
He We’d still be talking to this day if this next hadn’t happened.
So, you’ve decided this point you’re going to keep the money.
You know, you told your family, “Look, I’ve been made whole.
I don’t know how it happened, but I’m keeping the money.
” What happens? >> Okay.
So, I kept it and transferred it into my new bank account.
Yes, so it was like hiding It was like hiding it, but there’s no way to hide from these financial institutions.
They can check They know what’s going on.
I mean, they’re Yes, they have it.
It’s all traceable.
It’s also It’s also all traceable with Bitcoin.
It’s probably more traceable with Bitcoin, actually.
>> More traceable with Bitcoin.
It’s just not um backed by anything.
So, if money’s lost in a by a bank, there’s insurance.
It’s like FICO or something like that protects banks Yes.
>> from losses.
But, with Bitcoin, there’s nothing to back it.
Nothing to protect it.
It’s unregulated.
It’s the wild, wild west.
So, this is perfect for criminals.
So, how long’s the money sitting in your account? Louise contacts you and says, “Are you going to transfer this money to me?” No, because I I blocked him.
So, he I blocked him and deleted him, and I should have changed my phone number, but actually, they I What ended up happening after was the moral and ethical thing to do, which was that I had to go to the FBI because I was starting to get death threats from him and Oh, no, no, not him.
Not him.
They said they killed him.
They told me that they killed him and they sent my picture sent pictures of a dead body to myself and my sister.
Actually, not even me.
They sent me a lot of verbal and audio recordings of like, “If you don’t do this, if you don’t move this money into our account like you promised, we’re we’re coming to get you.
We’re going to kill you.
We’re going to kill your family.
” Yeah, they used those words.
Like, they should be in prison for the rest of their lives for this.
This is extortion, and I looked it up, and when you felt the level of fear that my sister and I felt, this it carries a 20-year sentence.
Absolutely, but they got a little more specific than these general threats, didn’t they? They were giving specific information about you, your sister, your nephews.
Yeah, so before it got scary and was all lovey and I was telling Luis about my life because we talked for years and he was I thought he was my person and we had gotten I had gotten to where I felt closer and more comfortable with him, so I started telling him about my nephew’s birthday parties or my how things were going on at my house and So he knew the family pretty well.
Do you think the picture they showed you was actually Luis? No.
Okay.
So Luis is still well, living, walking.
I hope not.
I hope he’s dead, but I think he’s still alive.
>> Okay.
I don’t think he’s well.
He might not He’s alive, but I don’t think he’s well.
So you >> probably was beat up because of the mistake or whatever.
I think there were gangs involved that had he was punished somehow.
Maybe, I don’t know.
I don’t know that I’ll ever know, but I stopped talking to him and then the my [clears throat] to like these they’re to like they run like a business like a well-oiled machine, so my case, my job was moved from here not not romancing her anymore.
Let’s extort.
We need to get this money.
We need to line her up as like in a way where she’ll keep giving us money.
Extortion, whatever we have to use.
Like this is no longer romantic.
>> So now it’s fear.
It’s fear against you.
It’s fear against your family.
How long did that go on for? Well, I was just going to say love and fear like two of the emotions that’ll make us do crazy things and I wanted to protect my family more than me.
Like I didn’t really care about me.
I was just I wanted to get myself away from North Carolina, so I left and I was hoping that maybe by leaving I would draw them towards me, but my sister was there alone and she had to leave her house with two small children.
Horrible.
These threats were repeated.
They were constant.
They went on for a while.
Yeah, so I went to the police after I got back from my out-of-town trip.
I went to the police on So, September 14th, there was the first death threat.
And then I went to the police immediately.
That’s right.
And she went to the FBI immediately on the 14th.
And we stopped talking to I never responded.
My sister responded, which have got her into a If something like this ever happens to you or anybody you know, just best thing to do is not respond.
That’s what the cops told me.
That’s what I wish I had been able to tell my sister.
They even sent a scary message to my stepmom, and she didn’t respond, and they didn’t follow up with her.
But, my sister, because she responded, because she didn’t know that it wasn’t real, and I didn’t know that it wasn’t real.
I guess I should have told her, “Hey, you might get a really scary message.
It’s totally fake.
” >> Well, you didn’t know at the time.
It’s not like you live through this every day.
I mean, this is something completely new.
So, let me understand this, Jen, cuz I’m trying to pull this all together.
We’re out roughly 300 and some odd thousand.
It is sitting in your account.
We’ll touch that in a minute.
You’ve had to sell your home.
So, you’re living with family.
And then, their threats move you and your sister out of an area in which you grew up in.
You had to basically go on the run to try to get away from these people.
Is that correct? Gosh, that’s just unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
Well, I thought they were going to kill us.
I mean, I just really did.
I like really didn’t know.
Some of the phone numbers that were contacting you were had South Carolina zip code area codes and Texas and California and They’re slick.
Yeah, they’re very slick.
So, but you still have the money in your account, correct? The 300 >> yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, the money’s still sitting in your account, which is good.
FBI’s involved.
What did you find out about that money that was sent to your account? >> So, the FBI was like, “You know this is not your money, right? It’s not yours.
You can’t keep it.
I don’t care how you got it.
You have to give it back.
We’re going to make you give it back.
” So, >> Give it back where? I just told them where the transfer came from.
It was a escrow company in Rhode Island.
The FBI agent looked it up, contacted them.
They said what happened was they were closing a deal for this lady.
She’s a single mom, ironically similar to my sister, and she was closing a deal on her house.
She just sold her house and she was like, “Yay, $319,000 is going to be mine.
I can pay off my loan and like feed my family better.
” I mean, I’m making some of this up because I don’t know her personally, but that is the actually the story.
She sold her her house and the money ended up in the escrow, but it went into my account because the scammer intercepted it through an simple email and said, “I’m the boss here and I’m telling you we were going to put it in this account.
Actually, I need you to put it in this other account when the deal closes.
” And they did.
And working in real estate myself, we probably, my organization I work for, we probably see this a half a dozen times a year.
Where they basically, to our viewers, what they do, and if you’re buying a house, be very careful with this.
They are looking through your Gmail, your Yahoo account.
If there’s any mention of escrow, a closing, buying a house, they’re following the path, and then what they’re basically doing is notifying your escrow company, acting like yourself, giving their account information.
So, when settlement’s closed, they wire the money to this false account, thinking they’re wiring it to your account.
So, please be careful.
That goes on.
I see it more and more every day, and I think, I’m not sure, Jen, but I think that’s probably what happened here.
Well, yeah.
This is what happened.
And what’s happening is that the scammers are getting more savvy and sophisticated and they’re going after the bigger amounts.
And that’s what I want to educate people about.
They’re not It’s not like gone are the days of the little $100 gift card scams, but those are for the amateurs.
The like the guys, the big players, they’re interested in getting these hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars transferring.
And where would somebody make a big sale or purchase like that? Well, a car, but it would have to be a really expensive car.
Or houses.
How about houses? How about we do this with houses? House sales.
So, it’s the best these things can get through, especially with AI and deep fake voiceovers.
All you have to do is just get a copy of my voice or your voice for a couple seconds and then AI can say on a phone call, “Hey, this is Jennifer and I’m about to sell my house and I just wanted you to know I opened a new bank account.
Here’s the information.
When it comes time to close escrow, I’d just like it to go into here.
” >> So, there.
Meanwhile, the scammer is saying all of this.
And then it goes into the wrong hands and the person who sells their house never gets their money.
Absolutely.
And I see it firsthand.
We had one last year was $800,000.
Thank God the FBI was able to track it and pull it back, but that would have devastated this family.
So, >> Totally, totally.
It would have devastated this woman and the and the FBI did get involved with me and got her money back to her.
So, I’m glad it didn’t go back to the scammers.
That would have been the last thing I would want to but um I was hoping to keep it and to Well, Shannon, that says a lot for your character and your kindness.
You did not want to see what happened to you happen to this poor single mom in Rhode Island who was trying to better her life.
So, I really commend you for that.
I mean, that was such a just caring act.
It really was.
I give you so much credit for that.
All right, now, here’s the fun part.
>> wrong.
We’re you know, no matter who you are, even if you’re a victim who’s stealing to get it back, that’s still stealing in the you know, I don’t know.
I’m slightly religious more spiritual than anything.
I just believe in karma and like if I’m going to steal from somebody, that makes me no different from these scammers.
I feel like there’s other ways for me to make money and that don’t involve stealing.
Absolutely.
And and you feel better when you make it honestly.
There’s no doubt about it.
But here’s the part where the story takes a great turn.
You decide, and I can tell by talking with you all the businesses you own, you’re a go-getter.
And I can imagine this you would sit in bed at night and this wouldn’t sit right with you.
So, you decide you want to find out more about these people and you enroll in cyber school for a degree in cybersecurity.
Is that correct? Tell me about that.
>> Well, it’s not a degree, it’s a certification, which is really good, too, but a degree is like, you know, and you have a master’s in which is awesome.
I would love to have a master’s in cybersecurity.
Maybe I will.
Maybe I will.
Yeah, it’s funny when I went to get my master’s, I was known as the real estate in the program, real estate agent in the program, and everyone’s like, “What the hell are you doing here?” And I’m like, “I have no idea what I’m doing here.
” But I give you credit, it’s very tough.
It’s not an easy road.
It’s not.
>> It’s not an easy road at all.
Like, I was, you know, I I was triggered like one of our classes talked about specifically what I had been through.
Romance scams and crypto scams and pig butchering and it was really hard to sit there in those classes and listen to what I had already been through.
And had I known ahead of time, I could have protected my own self.
But since I couldn’t, and it was already hindsight, I could protect others.
So, that’s the main motivation for doing it.
>> So, you’re gaining all these tools like I did, and I was amazed at what I learned in cyber school, what I was able to do.
Were you able to track down your scammers? With the help of No, not track down the scammers exactly, but FBI helped me find their IP addresses and locate them in this countries, Nigeria and South Africa and Cyprus, Greece and or Cyprus, it’s not Greece, but Cyprus, country of Cyprus near Greece and another place.
I can’t remember.
I think Ghana.
Okay.
So, a lot of Africa, a little bit of Europe, and no mention of Dubai.
Ironically.
So, the FBI actually turned over IP addresses to you? Really? >> Yeah.
Good for them.
Good for them.
>> yeah, yeah.
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